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Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.07 21:52:00 - [1] Tech 2 was 4-6 times more expensive 2 years ago. So what? Soon we'll have enough of goods on market. and Tech 3 Production will functionate normally. Soon i mean about 4-6 monthes... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:01:00 - [2] Originally by: Arushia 5a: Remove the random output from Reverse Engineering. This is mandatory. Random output was a major issue with Cloak, AF, and Recon invention when it was first introduced. It was fixed. Its intentional re-introduction as part of Reverse Engineering is unforgivable. The developer responsible for this must also spend a month mining Veldspar as penance. Invent had random output and still T2 have became cheap, even before Cloak, AF and Recons was fixed. So this is not really needed. Quote: 5b1: Remove the need for special Subsystems Engineering datacores. Change subsystem engineering to use relevant empire datacores instead. If they are good enough for hull engineering, then they are good enough for subsystem engineering. Re-purpose the Subsystem Engineering skills, or remove them and giev those who trained them a training speed bonus to compensate. 5b2: If that seems too radical, then increase the drop-rates of Subsystems Engineering datacores. Not slightly. We're talking 10-20x the current droprate here. Maybe additional R&D agents? B ut i don't know if it's really needed... Still i think soon there will be enough datacores. Quote: 5c: Re-design the worthless subsystems. Change the Gravitational Capacitor subsytems to Chassis Optimizations. Boost the bonus given by Fuel Catalysts to 15% or 20% per level. It's balancing question. Though "worhtless" subsystems, for those who can't afford good subsystems. Quote: 5d: Diversify subsystem build requirements. This will allow market forces to drive build costs properly. Wait few monthes and soon many people will have that skills. Quote: 5e: Introduce Sleeper module drops to their loot tables. These modules would be utterly incompatible with current systems (cannot be fitted), but could be used as base-items to boost the chance of a Reverse Engineering attempt, or re-processed to provide a few units of Sleeper salvage. Market forces will determine which of these is more profitable. Is it really needed? Quote: Conclusion I have, hopefully provided a list of everything that is wrong with Tech-3 production. It is understandable that some things come "pre-nerfed". This essay and your reponses will hopefully let CCP know which pre-nerfs to remove. I can't see if it's really needed... Lets wait say about half a year and if nothing changes then i'll agree that T3 need changes... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:29:00 - [3] The problem is not in drop. The problem that there is not enough farmers yet... Invent have played it role totally only after 2 years after implementation. So that's seems totally normal... what did u expected after 2 monthes? 2 monthes is not a time at all, 6-8 monthes maybe but not 2... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.07 22:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Arushia You missed the part where the worthless subsystems use EXACTLY the same materials to build in EXACTLY the same quantities as the good subsystems. Thus there can be no balancing of the production price. I didn't missed that. Don't forget that BPC does have a price too, so price of subsystems will be balanced by the price of BPC. If u are lucky u get good BPC if not then not so good BPC. Yes it's connected to Random, but Random makes our life interesting... Quote: I was referring to the material requirements, not the skills. They will be maybe diversified themselves as soon as there will be x10-x50 more farmers in WHs. Just let time pass and soon there will be a POS in almost every Jxxxxxx system... :) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 00:01:00 - [5] Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/05/2009 00:02:01 And i'm still quite sure that problem is not enough farmers in W-space. Just when more people will come there we'll get much cheaper parts much more reliques many datacores and so on... Just give people some time... Number of farmers will grow, and then u'll get ur x10-x20 drop... Not because of drop boost but because there is x10-x20 more people farming... There is very many WH in there, but most of them are not farmed yet... So u need more farmers not a boost of a drop or something like that... (Invent wasn't connected with farmers that hard, so it went into masses faster) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 00:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Elridon That would completely screw over T3 entirely. Having a POS in w-space completely nerfs the spawns of sites; having a POS in w-space makes the number of sigs decrease to almost 0 non-wormholes, and very vew CAs. A POS in nearly every w-system = nearly no resources to build T3 with. It was a joke about POS... Many WH that appears in New Eden isn't farmed yet so it's a matter of time... we need x10-x20 more farmers i agree. More farmers mean more drop until there is something to farm... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 08:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Arushia Step 5: Solutions 5a: Remove the random output from Reverse Engineering. This is mandatory. Random output was a major issue with Cloak, AF, and Recon invention when it was first introduced. It was fixed. Its intentional re-introduction as part of Reverse Engineering is unforgivable. The developer responsible for this must also spend a month mining Veldspar as penance. 5b1: Remove the need for special Subsystems Engineering datacores. Change subsystem engineering to use relevant empire datacores instead. If they are good enough for hull engineering, then they are good enough for subsystem engineering. Re-purpose the Subsystem Engineering skills, or remove them and giev those who trained them a training speed bonus to compensate. 5b2: If that seems too radical, then increase the drop-rates of Subsystems Engineering datacores. Not slightly. We're talking 10-20x the current droprate here. 5c: Re-design the worthless subsystems. Change the Gravitational Capacitor subsytems to Chassis Optimizations. Boost the bonus given by Fuel Catalysts to 15% or 20% per level. 5d: Diversify subsystem build requirements. This will allow market forces to drive build costs properly. 5e: Introduce Sleeper module drops to their loot tables. These modules would be utterly incompatible with current systems (cannot be fitted), but could be used as base-items to boost the chance of a Reverse Engineering attempt, or re-processed to provide a few units of Sleeper salvage. Market forces will determine which of these is more profitable. I thought a little and i agree only with 5a. 5a. Yes i should agree that their must be more decryptors. U should be able to choose not only race but also type of subsystem/hull (i mean that with a little bit reduced chance of success u can choose to have Defensive Subsystem (random) or Offensive Subsystem (random)) I think that this decryptors are needed because sometimes their could be bottlenecks that there is not enough of certain types of subsystems to make a T3 ship at least with "worthless subsystem"... 5b. As i said if their would be more farmers u'll have more datacores beacuse the most of sites still isn't farmed yet, So there could possible be more data cores without boosting of drop... 5c. Totally useless subsybsystems will be boosted when it would be proved that almost nobody buys them, but they would be cheaper then other because of that (don't forget that BPC has it's own cost and if u are unlucky u get bad BPC, and maybe even lose money, i understand why u don't want to lose ur money but it's life) 5d. More farmers will drive market. We'll need boost only if farmers would ask for more wormholes and there would be still not enough material, but i doubt that it would be so... 5e. This would be needed only in case that is desribed by me in a little bit before. Originally by: Turiel Demon C320 and C540 only spawn in 2 sites: Vital Core (most common in C5) has 500 C320 and 6000 C540 Instrumental Core (uncommon, almost exclusive to C6) has 500 C540 and 6000 C320. It's possible that a Vital Core could show up in C4 w-space, but even then it would only have enough C320 for 35 minutes of harvesting by one person. And with gases i do agree. I said somewhere about this disbalance even before Apocrypha was released. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Halycon Gamma many bla-bla-bla that there is no ISK in WH U're wrong there is ISK in WH. Sleepers loot is: Ancient Coordinates Database Neural Network Analyzer Sleeper Data Library Sleeper Drone AI Nexus This 4 things isn't needed for T3 production. Why they are there? U may sell them for ISK to NPC and get ISK from nowhere. So this things are instead of bounty. So u get: Neural Network Analyzer = 50k isk Sleeper Data Library = 200k isk Ancient Coordinates Database = 1,5 mill isk Sleeper Drone AI Nexus = 5 mill isk Not enough ISK from wormholes??? Or really? Remember when u sell something to NPC ISK are coming from nowhere... So there is plenty ISK in W-space... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.11 13:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Narfas Deteis T3 ships are expensive and almost useless. Maybe CCP should introduce some demanded T3 items with attractive (but still quite expensive) prices. Market will solve some problems... T3 ships will not be always expensive... T3 items would not be much cheaper, maybe they will even drive market that T3 ships will too expensive... So no this will not help... Let us wait soon there will be more farmers in W-space and more items needed for production... When prices of T3 ships stop decreasing we will see there real price... Now T3 ships are really more expensive then they should be, but they will not be so expensive always i hope, when price of Legion+Subsystem and/or Tengu+subsystems will fall to reasonable 300-500 mill ISK i maybe will by one, they have very attractive parameters in some setups... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.13 08:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Tamahra there is isk in anomalies, but not enough. if they doubled the value of the standard sleeper drops, then it might be worth doing the anomalies. as of now, since salvage drops are almost worth nothing, youll only have the drops as a revenue, and its just not enough. its 0.0 you know, and comes with a high risk..... doing anomalies in wh-space is maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of the revenue i could get when im doing lvl 4 missions in high sec. if the sleeper salvage was worth something, then it might be ok, but it isnt. I agree that there should be more ISK from 1st and 2nd W-spaces... Because it take for me 20 minutes to do anomalies in 1-st and 2-nd W-spaces in a drake. And what do i get? About 3 mill from 1-st and 4-5 mill for 2nd... Plus possible salvage 8-10 millions if u are lucky (if not then 1-3 mill) and after time it would be even cheaper... in comparisson from 3rd W-spaces i get about 30 mill in same drake with salvage about 40 mill... And it takes me 20 minutes to do 1-st or 2-nd anomalies and 30 minutes to do 3rd anomalies... So 1-st and 2-nd should be boosted and difference in ISK is up to 5-6 times... I think 1-st and 2-nd anomalies should be at least more isk-effective then 3-rd missions, though 3-rd anomalies are already more isk effective then 4-th missions... P.S. I never tried 4-th and 5-th anomalies so don't have statistic for them... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius

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